Is our national debt finally too much? (update)

(Note: A version of this episode originally ran in 2024.)

$40,000,000,000,000. Four commas. Thirteen zeroes. It’s an eye-popping, almost infinite-sounding pile of money. And every time the debt passes a big round number, almost everyone asks the same question: How much debt is too much?

It’s maybe the most important question in macroeconomics. It’s also surprisingly hard to answer. When two economists tried to answer it back in 2010, it ignited a research slugfest that lasted a decade. 

We did a show on this question in 2024, outlining everything we know and don’t know about when the national debt becomes a problem. But a lot has changed. Interest rates have risen and stayed high. Spending has steamrolled ahead. Doves have become hawks. 

So on today’s show, we update our 2024 episode to revisit the age-old question: Is our debt finally too much? 


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Our original episode was produced by Willa Rubin and edited by Molly Messick. This update was reported and produced by Vito Emanuel. It was fact checked by Sierra Juarez. It was engineered by Kwesi Lee. And it was edited by Alex Goldmark, Planet Money’s executive producer. 


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